Started in 2011, Canada’s Roman Catholic–Evangelical Dialogue has just completed one of its longest joint explorations, concluding two-and-a-half years of biannual meetings on the issues of Indigenous reconciliation and the residential schools.
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“Our Evangelical colleagues wanted to bring this topic to the Dialogue,” says Most Reverend Joseph Dabrowski, Bishop of the Diocese of Charlottetown, and the most recent Catholic co-chair of the Dialogue. He says he sees beauty in that reality, “because the heart of both Catholic and Evangelical faiths is the Gospel message of reconciliation.”
“We are certainly committed to right relationships,” agrees Dr. Glenn Smith, director of the practical theology program at the Presbyterian College in Montreal, and evangelical co-chair of the Dialogue. He explains that the idea for the theme was birthed, amid the historical moment when the discovery of unmarked graves–on the grounds of what were once residential schools–was hitting the headlines.
“We read the final report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada on the residential schools and discussed it,” Smith explains. “The unmarked graves just prompted us…. We also knew that the Pope was coming to Canada, which was going to be an important time for our Catholic brothers and sisters.”
Smith acknowledges that while most schools were overseen by the Catholic Church, “It’s important for all Christians to face up to this.” The need for reconciliation is a Christian problem he explains, because it is rooted in what was a Christian strategy, therefore we all have a stake in it.
“The great myth”
“Here’s the great myth,” Smith says. “Evangelicals are diffident on this subject because they hold the position, ‘Well, we didn’t have any schools so it’s not really our problem.’”
“To think that the schools that were run by the Anglicans, the United Church and the Presbyterians were run by people who did not have an Evangelical faith and practice is a great historical mistake. These people were motivated by mission. It was a missionary strategy. And it was a terrible missionary strategy, to take children out of their families … the antithesis of mission as we understand it today. So, we cannot be diffident on the subject.”
Bishop Dabrowski says there is broad benefit to understanding our shared history. “A united Christian voice on truth and reconciliation carries greater moral and social weight,” he explains. “Indigenous communities often see Christianity as a whole, rather than distinguishing between denominations. So, presenting a unified front demonstrates this collective willingness to acknowledge past harms and work together for meaningful change.”
An atmosphere of warmth, trust and candour
The Dialogue first met on the theme of reconciliation in Mississauga, Ont. in December 2022, with theologians, academics, priests, pastors and organizational leaders among them. In addition to praying and worshipping together, members shared updates on the details of their personal and professional lives. The minutes of their gathering, which took place over a period of three consecutive days, testify to an atmosphere of warmth, trust and candour. Activities ranged from watching a documentary film called The Survivors about Cree families in Northern Quebec who had lived through the residential school experience, to discussion of the federal government’s report on Truth and Reconciliation. Two papers were presented and discussed (one by each side), including a paper on truth and reconciliation by Aurélie Caldwell, who taught systematic theology at the Dominican University College in Ottawa for 20 years and now teaches part-time for the Archdiocese of Ottawa-Cornwall.
It might sound like a lot of high-level conversation around a table and not much more. But Caldwell says that the knowledge acquired through mutual trust and understanding and the insights gained through the sometimes-challenging back-and-forth wrestling over ideas related to the topic at hand, extend beyond the confines of the meeting room.
As metaphorical lightbulbs go on, and participants’ hearts and minds are expanded and changed, they return to their respective spheres of influence ready to share the learning. “When we come together and increase our awareness of each other, it can trickle down to our own milieu,” Caldwell says.
Before truth can be expressed and received there must be trusting relationship, she adds. “Truth will not be expressed well or received well unless there is trust. And then reconciliation can happen. But reconciliation comes at the end of the whole process.”
The work towards building such trust, Caldwell insists, is difficult but important. “The division among Christians is a scandal,” she says. “It is an obstacle to preaching the gospel. It is important as much as possible to work together, or at least to not work against each other.”
Members of the Dialogue agree that their learning has been rich, but it was richest when they met with Indigenous people face-to-face – Evangelicals, Catholics and non-Christians – to hear from them about their wide-ranging experiences.
Truly listening to others
It was the first time in the Dialogue’s history that members travelled into other communities for the sole purpose of listening to the voices and experiences of others. That is what occurred when the group next met, in Spring 2023, in Regina. Following a time of reflection on what it means to truly listen to others, the group heard from several Indigenous men and women who shared personal, painful, sometimes shocking stories of profound tragedy and injustice experienced because of church-run residential schools. Children ripped from their families, denied access to their culture, subjected to physical abuse and intergenerational trauma – these are just some of the themes that surfaced in the visitors’ stories.
Evangelical Dialogue member Andrew Dyck is an assistant professor at Canadian Mennonite University in Winnipeg. He says hearing the stories of particular Indigenous people and of their particular encounters with the church and the Gospel affected him deeply.
“If I don’t hear stories, it’s easy to make sweeping generalizations about Indigenous people and groups,” he explains. “But when I hear stories, every story is unique and has a different angle to it. So, for me, as far as key learning, it’s about needing to first listen to actual stories about what people have experienced, encountered and wrestled with, and taking those stories seriously.”
“When the Church of Christ has done harm, that affects all of us. So, we all have something to do with working towards healing and reconciliation and restoring the reputation of Christ and the Church.”
Brett Salkeld is archdiocesan theologian for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Regina and the longest serving member of the Dialogue, having been there from the beginning. He describes the practice of hearing one another and being able “to articulate the other person’s position or experience in a way that they themselves would recognize it” as a key to building trust, and a first step towards reconciliation. “You can’t get anywhere until people feel heard.”
He describes the engagement with local Indigenous people and communities across the country as being among the Dialogue’s greatest successes. “When I look back, the things in my memory are those people. I can picture their faces and remember the feeling in the room as they were speaking.”
He cites other successes. “In public perception the residential schools are much more a Catholic problem,” he says. “It was good for Catholics to see what it looks like in the evangelical world, that the fallout from colonialism is not selective. Any representative of Christianity has to deal with the fallout from that. It was also good for Evangelicals to realize it’s part of their heritage. That was important.”
“We are all part of this brokenness”
The Dialogue’s third meeting on the topic took place at Tyndale University, in December 2023. Their learning began with a video about Pope Francis’ penitential pilgrimage to Canada and ended with a talk by evangelical theologian and member of the Turtle Clan of the Haudenosaunee, Adrian Jacobs.
According to the meeting’s minutes, Jacobs told the group that simply coming to the treaty table at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada (TRC) and post TRC is an act of forgiveness. “It’s saying to the settlers that even though you’ve lied to us again and again, we are still going to believe you won’t lie this time.”
Over the course of the three-day gathering, the group’s discussions ranged from the practical – what each side is doing institutionally towards the work of reconciliation – to the theological, as they tried to reach an understanding of different missional terms that each group uses.
Bishop Joseph Dabrowski explained inculturation. It is about making faith and practices feel at home within a culture. Instead of replacing Indigenous cultures with something foreign, it’s about allowing the Gospel to take root within their unique traditions and ways of life. It’s the idea that God speaks to people in their own “language,” not just the words they speak, but through their music, art, stories and “ceremonies.”
He continued, “In the residential school context, inculturation is essential because part of the harm was the attempt to erase Indigenous identity. True healing means not just acknowledging Indigenous culture, but celebrating how faith can be expressed through it. It shows respect for the dignity of their traditions and their role in God’s creation.”
Glenn Smith unpacked contextualization. “This begins by attempting to discern where God is already at work through the activity of His Spirit in a given context. It continues with a desire to communicate the gospel in word and deed and to establish groups of people who long to follow Jesus in ways that make sense to them within their cultural context.”
He continued, “Contextualization occurs when Christ is presented in such a way that people can see that He can meet their deepest needs, allowing them to both follow Jesus and remain within their culture. It is a continual reflection on action that invites new reflection; what is often referred to as praxis.”
Evangelical Dialogue member Marc Potvin is director of field education at the Montreal School of Theology. He says the discussions contained critical learnings for him. “As Roman Catholics and Evangelicals we have the same aim of proclaiming the kingdom of God,” he says, “but we use different terms and a different approach. That was a good revelation for me. The more we discussed our different terms the more we were saying ‘but what’s the difference?’ There is a difference, primarily because of our ecclesiological background. But in the end, we seek to accomplish the same thing.”
He describes the conversation as chasing a rabbit trail, “but it was good to find that trail because it enabled us to have greater respect for what the Roman Catholic Church is seeking to accomplish now. They are seeking to do good there and to bring healing to people still living with brokenness. So that was encouraging to see.”
Responsibility for reconciliation, he has come to believe, is “something we share. There is more to this issue than just the residential schools. … We are all part of this brokenness. We have become richer because we have stolen so much from the First Nations. We are on land that we have stolen through broken promises and making promises that there was no desire to keep.”
Perspectives changed
The Dialogue held their final meeting on the theme of reconciliation and the residential schools in Montreal, in the summer 2024. This time, they travelled to the Indigenous communities of Kaneshsatà:ke and Kanawà:ke to listen and learn from people there.
Several of the Dialogue’s members said they were moved and impressed to meet Harvey Satewas Gabriel in Oka, who shared his story of growing up in Kaneshsatà:ke, his memories of the Oka crisis of 1990, and his commitment to his people, the land, and the Bible. Harvey also told of the church burnings that took place in Oka – resulting from Catholic/Protestant tension – as far back as the 1880s.
Gabriel, now 84, worked for 17 years after his retirement to complete a translation of the Bible into Mohawk, with support from the Canadian Bible Society and the United Church of Canada.
Speaking on behalf of her husband, Susan Gabriel said that while “reconciliation has not been his focus,” Harvey was very happy to meet the Dialogue’s members, and that, “he felt heard.” She said a highlight of the exchange for her husband was giving a copy of the Mohawk translation to Bishop Dabrowski, who promised to pass it along to Pope Francis.
“There were so many ways that experience changed my perspective,” says Andrew Dyck. “I only knew about Oka from the news crisis of 1990, the blockades and so on. And here’s this man, from the United Church, and he cared so much about Scripture, and devoted years of his life to this translation project. To gain another view of the United Church and another view of Mohawk people that just wasn’t part of the stereotypic stories that are sometimes told. That really stood out for me.”
The group also visited the Shrine of Kateri Tekakwitha and the Église Saint-François-Xavier and learned the painful history of conflict between Protestants and Catholics in the community. It is a history so painful that enduring wounds continue to fester and impact the community to this day. It is also yet one more tragic fruit of the Church’s earliest missionary efforts.
“I hadn’t thought about that at all – the ecumenical challenges within the different Indigenous communities,” says Brett Salkeld. “The vast majority of the ecumenical work we do more or less ignores that result of our missionary efforts. The messy mix of mission and colonization and how it has shaped the ecumenical landscape within Indigenous communities.”
Moving forward together
Ask the Dialogue members about the lessons they learned from their participation over the past two-and-a-half years, and there is broad consensus; they don’t have any grand solutions to the problems faced by Indigenous brothers and sisters or know of any quick routes to reconciliation. As members of the Dialogue, they recognize that they were able to hear the stories of but a small handful of Indigenous people, who represent a minute fraction of Indigenous cultures, communities, and experiences.
But they learned to listen, really listen. And that is a lesson they believe churches across Canada need to hear. Because in listening, they learned the gravity of the situation.
“We’ve got to pursue right relationships if we want to get to reconciliation,” Glenn Smith reflects. “Let’s not rush to reconciliation. Let’s work on establishing right relationships. And that’s going to be a local issue. My faith community in Montreal has to be in right relationships with our brothers and sisters in Kaneshsatà:ke. Throwing up our hands is a luxury we can no longer afford.”
The Dialogue members say that right relationships begin with having a right relationship with our Creator. It is out of right relationship with God that we will move toward right relationship and reconciliation with all of God’s creation and with others, including with Indigenous brothers and sisters.
Smith added, “My hope and my prayer are that there is a model here, that people will understand that there are other Christians taking this matter seriously. The practice of reestablishing right relationships has got a path. It’s about dialogue, study, prayer, action.”
Situating study and reflection within a local context is important and deepens understanding, he explains. That is why the Dialogue went to Regina and to the Mohawk communities of Kaneshsatà:ke and Kanawà:ke.
They asked for permission to sit with Indigenous neighbours and to interact. Members strove for a posture of humility and active listening, setting aside preconceived notions and judgments in a desire to discern where the Spirit of God was already at work in each situation. They deliberately slowed down, allowed plenty of time, asked honest questions, and remained open to feedback. “We wanted to be prophetic,” Smith says, “learning where injustices were committed, relationships shattered, and God’s love demeaned.”
Bishop Dabrowski calls the topic of reconciliation, “urgent because it addresses both a historical injustice and a present-day call to healing.
“The relationship between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people in Canada remains strained,” he adds. “Many Indigenous communities feel that promises of reconciliation have not been met with substantial action. Now is the time for Christian communities to take concrete steps, moving from statements of apology to active listening, learning, and collaboration with healing initiatives.”
14 years of formal Roman Catholic-Evangelical Dialogue
For the past 14 years, the Roman Catholic–Evangelical Dialogue has been forming and nurturing friendships among leaders of both faith groups while building bridges of support and empathy, coming together to understand one another’s perspectives on various topics and themes.
The roots of the Dialogue can be traced back to the Fall of 2005, when Bruce Clemenger, then president of The Evangelical Fellowship of Canada (EFC), was invited to give an address to the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops (CCCB) Plenary Assembly about the importance of collaboration between Evangelicals and Catholics.
The following spring, the CCCB’s Commission for Christian Unity sent a letter to the EFC proposing “the possibility of a formal dialogue.” By 2008, the two sides had established a working group to begin the conversation and make recommendations about the proposal.
The formal Dialogue began with a two-day retreat in spring, 2011, and from its earliest days, the partners agreed to meet for prayer, study, and action.
Coming together, the Catholics and Evangelicals would agree on a topic and then present papers, one or two from each faith group’s perspective. Engaging in discussion, they sought understanding about each other’s tradition, for both commonalities and differences. Among the topics discussed have been Scripture, tradition and salvation. Throughout this process, members say they have learned that there can be reconciliation between Roman Catholics and Evangelicals.
Acknowledgements
The Roman Catholic–Evangelical Dialogue is sponsored by (but is not speaking for) the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops and The Evangelical Fellowship of Canada. We would like to thank Patricia Paddey for researching and writing this article. This article has also been published at CCCB.ca. Photo of two hillsides by Peyton Morris from Unsplash.